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One of the most effective ways to tackle the housing shortage and rising rents is to build more apartments, especially near transit and commerce. Unfortunately, strict zoning and other barriers—including fire safety concerns—can keep apartments from being built.

To provide data that could counter those concerns, The Pew Charitable Trusts conducted a first-of-its kind analysis of fire deaths to determine the relative safety of various housing options. The result: Of all the residential buildings in the U.S., modern apartment buildings—those constructed since 2000—are the safest form of housing in terms of fire deaths.

In this video, Milwaukee Fire Department Chief Aaron Lipski and Caledonia, Wisconsin, Fire Department Battalion Chief Erich Roden talk about how their experiences align with Pew’s findings.

“The modern building, I think, if we’re looking at fire death and fire injury, [is] amazingly safer,” says Lipski. “[The rule of thumb] that we use when we talk to developers is, you want to make a firefighter want to rent a top-floor apartment in your building,” explains Roden, who works with municipalities and developers to improve fire safety in buildings. “Most deaths I’ve seen throughout my career occurred usually in single-family homes. The disparity speaks volumes.”

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